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 A little bit of a backstory is needed here, so please bear with me for a few moments....I grew up loving baseball. Not only watching it, but playing it. I would spend countless hours throwing a tennis ball against a wall to perfect my ground ball fielding skills in my quest to become the next Ryne Sandberg. I would spend 4-6 hours a day during the Summer playing 'fastpitch' with one of my friends in an effort to find the perfect line drive swing. Most kids would prefer to sit inside and play video games...I enjoyed playing baseball and I could see that I was getting better nearly every day.
By the time I was 11, I was pretty good. Obviously, because I was 11 I wasn't physically large enough to pound home run after home run with kids in high school, but I was good enough to be rated as having High School Varsity skills...at 11. At 14, I was flying to the Bahamas to play in a Caribbean Tournament with a Team USA filled with college players/college. I had two uncle's who were professional baseball players and I was supposed to be the next one. By the time I was 15....I lost the 'drive' to get better. Little did I know then that it was actually the precursor to my later use of performance enhancing supplements. (I'm stealing these pictures from Google.)
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 I pretty much 'floated' through my high school baseball career. I wasn't a big time prospect, I only had a few schools looking at me and to be honest with you....I didn't like playing. There were a lot of reasons for that, but we don't need to go into them here.....I had become content with being an average baseball player and that's pretty much what I was at that point.
Then, the Summer before my freshman year in college I decided that I wanted to prove to myself that I could be a good baseball player again. I'm not really sure why I came to this decision. Maybe I woke up one morning and felt good, I'm not sure. I was headed to a Division II school that allowed walk-on players and after talking to the coach in the Summer I was able to try-out for the team in the Fall.
The thing is...I knew I wasn't good enough to play at that level. At least, not at that point. So, I started working out really hard. When I graduated high school I was 160 pounds of whatever the opposite of muscle is (besides fat, since I'm 6'). I started hearing about creatine at the time, so after doing some research on it, I started using it. I knew that in order to make the baseball team I would have to workout extremely hard all Summer long. By using creatine it helped me do that because the amount of time it took my body to 'rebound' from one workout to another was minimal. I was working 8 hours a day as a summer helper at a construction site, going to the gym for a 90 minute workout and then I was playing on a traveling baseball team at night that played 60 games that Summer. On top of that, I was doing speed/running workouts. My body never felt better. By the end of the Summer I was up to 175 pounds and bench pressing 225 lbs during my sets (not my max). I was playing really well...hitting the ball hard, running 4.2's from home to first, getting to ground balls I hadn't reached before and feeling like I was at the top of my game. I had a new body, new confidence and it felt amazing.
 Needless to say, I scorched through the try-out and made the team. I felt that creatine had played a huge role in that....and I would turn to it again later for help. I ended up having to quit (or get released) from the team because of the time constraints it put on my classes (seriously), but I was content with knowing I had made the team. At that point, I figured I was done with baseball.
Fast forward to two years later and I'm getting ready to not only transfer to a new school, but also....play baseball again. I hadn't picked up a bat/glove/ball in about two years but I had talked the coach into giving me a 'look-see' at an upcoming intrasquad scrimmage they were having at my new school. I went on a month long workout binge, only this time....there was a new product on the market, Androstenedione. So, I'm begin trying to work through two years worth of rust by using Adro and Creatine. The results were phenomenal. I was in decent shape for the intrasquad game and made the team. By the time the Spring rolled around....I was up to 195 pounds and running 4.1's from home to first. Obviously, as a baseball player I'm not in the weight room going through the same workouts as football players. My workouts consisted of sustained exercises to build up longer muscles with more endurance. Creatine and Andro allowed me to do that with flying colors. I was putting in nearly three hours a night when you factored in the time I was using to hit off a tee and feeling very little fatigue.
I struggled to produce when the season rolled around...that's what happens when you haven't played for two years. Still, I stayed on my cycles and kept working out. Eventually things turned around so that I was stealing bases, making diving plays, hitting triples, etc..I ended up hitting in the .330's that season batting lead-off and playing shortstop. I was pretty content with those results and I never really felt tired the entire season long. Obviously, I struggled at times but that was more because of the rust involved from not playing. My body was never tired.
 I wanted to know how good I was...clean. I had to know just how much of a difference this 'stuff' was making. So, as I headed into my final season of playing college ball I threw away all the 'stuff' I had. I was working in the fitness center during the week, opening up the place at 6am; so I was able to put in a two-hour workout before anyone had really been on campus. I was still lifting the same amount of weight, but I could feel my body getting more tired than before. Still, I grinded it out and went into my final season at 190 lbs (5 lbs less than the season before).
I'm notoriously a slow starter, but after my annual 0-13 start to the season, I caught fire. I was hitting triples, stealing bases...you get the point. But my body was getting tired, my hamstrings hurt, my shoulder felt worn, my elbow ached. My body did not feel good. I still was getting good results on the field (hitting .407) but my body felt horrible. So, you guessed it, I went back on the 'stuff'. I started to feel better initially and actually started to 'up my doses'. At this point I was not only playing well, but I was feeling better than ever.
I'm not going to go into detail as to how the rest of that season played out statistically, but the point is....I used Creatine (banned in NCAA, NFL and IOC) and Andro (banned in MLB, NCAA, NFL and IOC) to make myself a better baseball player, and in some ways, it worked. These 'supplements' that the players use don't allow them to hit 95+mph fastballs when they couldn't before. It allows them to play at their highest level for a longer period of time though, so there is not as much of a drop off. It allows them to workout longer during the off-season so that their bodies can make it through a grueling season. It gives them the confidence and, in some ways, the mentality that they are at the top of their game.
Personally, if I had to do it all over again....I would have tried to do it without Creatine and Andro. I wasn't trying to make it to the big leagues, I was just trying to prove to myself that I was, in fact, a good ballplayer. I think, or I like to think, I could have made it without the help.
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2008 Cubs Preview
There apparently were some side affects as it changed you from a white pitcher to a black shortstop.
Yes, THAT was a tough transition
back to the story.
Do you feel any guilt associated with the andro and creatine?
Can you honestly say you would have been able to do this without?
Not sure what Division you played but, was there much use of this or other Performance enhancers with your teammates?
Um....
Shrinkage?
Good story Jack. I also used Creatine quiet extensively for a period of time but it was not for sports I played. I weighed a buck 50 in high school. I was about the same at the beginning of college. I started doing weight lifting as a way to help put some pounds on the skinny frame and also as a hobby since there was nothing else to do in the small town I lived in during the summers. Now, I had lifted weights on and off for years but not like this. In the gym that I worked out at, there was a trainer that I had known for a few years. I asked for advice on helping grow muscle. He put me on a good intense program, creatine (loading the fist week), protein shakes, and a good high protein diet. That summer I put on about 15 pounds and was up to around the low 170’s. I had an all day workout to go with this. Working in a factory off bearing headboards was quite the workout in itself. So, I did a ton of actual work to supplement the weight lifting. It’s hard to judge what exactly the creatine did for me because of the other variables involved. In my opinion, the high protein diet combined with the protein shakes had a bigger claim to my added weight than anything. It was also hard to judge how the creatine affected my energy. I was younger then with an idea and drive to obtain the weight goal. I’m sure creatine had something to do with it in the grand scheme of things but it was hard to judge. I had another stint after college in which I went back to this hobby of lifting. I didn’t use the creatine except the first few weeks of that time frame. I was able to gain pretty much the same results using a protein shakes, high protein diet, and an intense workout. Mabye I'll use Creatine as a way to help me make it through work these days without wanting to fall asleep.
This was almost five years ago and I hadn't really thought about it much until last night, so at the time there wasn't any guilt. I just felt like I was taking some risk because there wasn't much information on what the stuff could do to your health, long term. So far, so good on that front. Right now I don't feel guilty about it. I just needed to know, for myself, that I could play at a certain level. Sounds pretty ridiculous?
I can't say honestly that I would have been able to go through the whole process and been able to do it without. I was 165 lbs when I started and 190-195 when I finished. I think it helped me, either mentally or physically, in the weight room with the endurance factor. I needed to gain strength and become quicker to play at the level I wanted to be at. I don't think I could have gotten to that level without it. I think I always had the ability to hit, run and play at that level, but the use helped get me there, if that makes sense? The 'stuff' helped to break down the barriers that were keeping me from getting there.
Initially I played Division II and I think on the 33 man roster there were 4 of us using Creatine. The coaching staff knew before I took my physical (which put me on the team) that I was using and said it was up to me to watch myself on the usage. When I transferred to a NAIA school, in a very difficult conference, I think we had one or two other guys using Andro. When I started using my final season I was bumming it off of a guy who had been in the Army and was using the Andro to help deal with some pain he had left over from serving (If I remember correctly). Generally, I worked out on my own, and still do, so I can't say how they were working out, if they were at all.
no shrinkage. a lot of peeing through the creatine cycling. some stomach issues which i'm not sure were related to the usage.
One other comment. Before I saw that the pics were from google I thought that maybe that was a pic of you in little league. I saw a name on the back of jersey and was wondering how in the world you fit your last name on there.
As Hoosiernation points out, if I understood correctly, it's hard to tell if the changes are from the 'stuff' or because you think its working so you just keep working out. I'm sure there are studies out there that could provide tons of information on this.
just playing devil's advocate:
if these supplements simply allow a player to stay at his peak, then what's the point in banning it? let everyone take it feel good year round. the players play well, feel good, and the fans get a better product, right?
and i always thought creatine was a fairly pedestrian supplement. didn't know it was banned.
Yeah, you understood correctly Jack. The more variables you incorporate into a workout or program the harder it is to distinguish what kind of effect each variable has on you. The thing about Creatine, comparatively to these ped's in baseball, is it is a natural substance in the body. We might need Cpt. Morgan's to clarify that even further.
The link I provided on Creatine says it's banned in the NCAA, NFL, and IOC. I'm still looking for the MLB ban, so I'll change the post until I do and link it there if I find it.
I think the point of banning it is because 1) (main reason) there are possible long term health issues with it, and 2) I think fans want to look out on the field and have hope that somehow they are like the players playing the game
Is creatine a banned PED by MLB now? That's news to me. I used it for a couple of years pretty consistently about 5 years ago, but it's really hard for me to judge its effects. I will say that Andro never did anything for me.
I never thought of creatine as anything more than an energy boost when I was lifting. My recovery time was pretty much the same with or without, when I didn't use it for a while I never lost any strength if I continued working out.
Honestly, I found that just about everything you could buy at a GNC (Andro, Xenadrine, Creatine, etc) turned out to be nothing more than a bullshit placebo.
I was probably in a different situation than you, sounds like you're a typical ectomorph. That body type always has trouble adding muscle, then keeping it on. You'd probably be able to tell the effects of these supplements better than I. No matter what I did or took, I got bigger. Motivation was my big thing.
I was going to ask what Brian sort of brought up about the placebo.
I was just interested if you thought any of the feeling of extra energy was a possible placebo effect.
I don't know because I've never taken anything and I was interested in that.
I think Hoosiernation kind of went over this as well....I'm a believer, and there are studies that prove, that your mind can make you think something is working when it could actually be a placebo. That's absolutely a possibility. I had a guy who was getting me the stuff because he was getting it for a bunch of people, so who knows. I don't have it around anymore to test it.
I can't really say thought that I tied my shoes this morning. I mean, I think I remember I did it myself, but who knows if in reality it happened?
As I took the supplements I fully believed they were legit. I felt like they were giving me the edge I needed to work my way back. I was fully committed to that belief. That was my mindset.
Also, at that time I had a lot of time on my hands and since I like to research just about everything under the sun, I researched these supplements quite extensively. It wasn't just me walking into a GNC and picking up a bottle or something like that.
I've had one period of my life that I used creatine and whey pretty heavily.
I was a runt through high school. A robust 5'2", 115 lbs as a freshman and ended up around 6'0", 170 lbs as a senior. I believe I maxed out around 175 on bench. I was a monster. My freshman year of college I got tired of being small and started working out really hard with a couple of meat heads.
I got into the creatine and whey protein cycle and by about halfway through second semester I had gotten up to 208 lbs. I then had a max around 305/310 on bench. Then one morning I woke up and noticed how freaking bloated my face was. The creatine was making me retain a lot of water and it looked like it was all in my face. Which was not good considering I already have a large gourd for a head. Very soon after that I gave up the creatine. I still took the whey from time to time and still worked out a lot, but changed up the workout to include much more cardio.
I had a few friends that took Andro during this period and there was definitely a difference between the effects of it and the effects of creatine. If I were to go back I wouldn't take the stuff again. I could work out more and for longer periods, but wasn't really worth it.
I was actually lucky enough to play with Jack during many of his years during his baseball career, including those in which he was in college...I personally never used anything...hell, I never even lifted weights, but I always wondered what things would have been like if I did...I will say though on Jack's behalf, he would have been one hell of a baseball player regardless of using that stuff or not...
Buck does have a large melon, I just realized that.
My experience in using andro and creatine came in my junior year of high school. I entered high school 5'2 and a very chubby 160 pounds. By my junior year after working at a grocery store all summer and reading muscle mags, I picked up EAS creatine and some androstene. By the end of football season my junior year, I was 5'9 and 185 lbs. I wasn't "cut" necessarily but I was maxing out a squat of 425, bench of 235 and leg press of I know over 700.
My first 2 years of football I was sore all winter until spring when baseball began. My junior "off season" between football and baseball I was able to run and lift as if I had never played football. No problems at all except the occasional day where it seemed like I was living at the water fountain (dehydration)... My junior year in varsity was the only season where I was in the lineup every game (whether as pitcher or DH). I didn't have blazing speed, but I did notice that I was driving the ball with more authority. It was also the only season in my "career" where I batted higher than 5th in the lineup (I hit 2nd). I ended up pitching 4 complete games (I had never pitched a complete game before. I think this was due to the fact that I had refined my mechanics better, than any supplement), and I ended up with 4 homeruns and 43 rbis (tied for 5th all time at my school).
Going into my senior year I continued using creatine, I had dropped the andro though. I didn't notice much of a difference once I was off the andro. Then I suffered a partially seperated shoulder and a torn labrum on a screen pass which virtually ended my "career". I got off the creatine after that... Obviously I couldn't pitch that season but I did hit in the first few games and couldn't generate much of anything in the bat speed department because I couldn't get any torque out of my shoulder. so I had surgery... and here I am today.
I'm late to this post, and it's a pity. Very interesting tale, Cobra. In high school, I was a very mediocre athlete, never took any supplements...I'm one of those guys who hates to even take a Tylenol when he has a headache, so I probably wouldn't have done it even if I had thought of it. But it's fascinating to read the stories of those of you who did.
I didn't see this post before, oddly. Anyway, I'll skip the "my Creatine experience" story, but a couple of my good friends were trainers for a long time in gyms, doing personal fitness. So I know a lot about these things from them.
They both though Creatine was a placebo. It's a natural substance, found in steak and stuff. It's primary function is to help you retain water (as Buck noticed) in your muscles, so you can lift more because you are, in fact, bigger. But it's also easy to deflate after getting off Creatine, especially if you are a naturally skinny guy (as I am, and Cobra sounds like he is).
On a side note, your physical trajectory matches mine, Cobra. 6' 160 throughout high school, started lifting in college, got bigger (to about 190), which is where I was. Until I turned 29, when I added 10 pounds out of nowhere (bye-bye 6 pack. Sniff). I'm around 200-210 now (210 in the winter, 200 in the summer when I run more).
The one product I tried that I found super-effective, and later was made illegal: Liquid Speed. The stuff like Ripped Force. I would work out for three hours, and run, far more when I drank that stuff than anything else I did.
My guess: Creatine and size building drugs work for a certain type of body, and speed-like drugs work for another kind of body type. Both serve similar functions, in terms of making you "feel better" (whether placebo or reality).
So are greenies more effective to making a player better than steroids? I would bet yes, because players don't care too much if you take their steroids away, but touch their greenies and there would be a riot...
You guys kill me. I had to work out (cardio) to keep myself down at 195 when I was in college. But that's just body type, I guess.
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