Personally, I can't stand LaRussa, but innings counting doesn't have the scent of his particular brand of arrogant crazy.

It's weird that the Cards pulled Wells on that last start, but hadn't made it through the 5th inning in all of September, anyway, and was getting pulled from games for pitching poorly. It's unreasonable to think that Wells wouldn't have hit 165 on his own merits, I think.

he sucks. I wouldn't pay him any bonus and it's a business decision. Why give him a bonus for suckiness. He gave up 22 hits and 12 runs in 12 innings his first three starts of September. Ankiel would have been a better option. If I'm Jockety, I would have hit him with my car.

2 1/3 innings away. A lot of teams would give him that cash just for coming that close.

The bonus was there for health, because he had health issues in the past, I would guess.

Whether he was good or not, is beside the point. The point is that he would have made the innings mark had they not started fooling around with him. They let him lose 17 games before pulling him....

His two relief outings prior to his final outing he pitched pretty well. He threw 56+ pitches in those games but only 42 in the last game...which was started by Troy Percival for some reason?

You could say that 4 out of his last 5 outings were good, for him, as he gave up 4 runs in 9 1/3 innings on 8 hits. It doesn't look like the guy was struggling to get to the finish line.

If the Cubs shut down Cliff Floyd for the final two weeks of the season because he was getting close to an at-bat bonus, how would you feel?

is it unfair? yes. Was he making 4M and sucking? yes. Does he deserve an innings bonus? no. He got dumped as a starter on September 3 after giving up 6 runs in 3 1/3 innings. He pitched out of the bullpen after that. The rosters expanded they were still at .500 and he was killing them and they didn't need him to start and suck anymore.

Was it on purpose? Of course it was but that's the way it is. Would they do this if he was 17-7? probably not.

I would feel crappy for Floyd (about ten seconds cause he still makes 3M) but not crappy at all for guys like Ohman or even Woods. No to Floyd because he produced and deserved it. Not Ohman because he sucks and not for Woods because he'e always hurt. The situation is different for each guy.

is it unfair? yes.

Was it on purpose? Of course it was but that's the way it is.

So...you are agreeing with me, but just saying that's how things are??

I'm saying that's how things are but it's not fair....and the Cardinals look bad for doing it and other players see that and don't want to play there.

How do the hell do I know what I'm saying?

I really don't feel bad for him at all that he sucks and doesn't deserve a penny more.

How about this. It's a little "busch" league.

I'd say give it to him. Wally-Jock is good at throwing money away, what is 500K to him at this point?

was it unfair? not exactly sure which you're talking about? 17 loses? he threw yes, not sure that was his job for 4M or 600K/win ... would be nice to get a 11% bonus for just showing up to work wouldn't it? Hell performance doesn't matter as a gov emp does it... I forgot and I can tell... they should have given him the $500K just because right?

Screw Wells and his damn bonus. If the Cardinals had any other pitchers available, he would have been sent to the minors/released/shot around mid-season.

He should have never pitched over 100 innings for the team.

The only reason I know that players don't come to St. Louis is because they don't hand out gregarious contracts left and right. They try to give fair value where it is deserved.

Wow, I thought Cardinals fans were well informed and educated. Maybe I was giving you guys too much credit.

To sit a guy just so he doesn't get his bonus when he is that close to it is a Bush League move and players around the league will know about it and continue to not sign with St. Louis.....

They don't try to give fair value, they try to give less than fair value and then if they can't get that they go with the retreads.

They dont treat their players right, you've written about their health staff numerous times Buck. These are the things that become the downfall of an organization until they bring in new management.

You're probably correct there Jack... but of course you always are... right? by the way... we weren't going to resign Wells much like Marquis.. hey there's another Cardinals reject which can throw innings for the Cubs (which they only look for innning eaters) next year and You guys can pay him the 500K bonus...

Marquis = an innings eater that is in the playoffs

Wells = an innings eater that got screwed out of a bonus.

The Cards didn't miss the playoffs because of Wells, it was a team effort!

We've been over the Marquis signing like hundreds of times it seems. not going to do it again.

I never said Wells was any good. I just said he was screwed out of a bonus on purpose by the Cardinals and that is a Bush League move.

So, if I understand you correctly, you think it was a bush league move, right? I wasn't sure, because you didn't mention it that often...
Was he screwed? If I know the current regime like I should, yes he was, but so fucking what? Do you actually think the Cardinals are the only team to short-sheet a player? Wells couldn't pitch his way out of a wetnap this year. If he had managed to hold down the number of ass reamings he received this year to a more "respectable" number, he would have gotten his 165 innings and it wouldn't be the source of acrimony it is now. Another thing few people failed to acknowledge here is that his agent is Scott Boras. Is there any real surprise that this has gone public?
And if this was Buck or me going after Cubs management for a similar situation, you'd be all up in our ass making the same claims we are, so why the shot at our intelligence?

Uh.... this one instance over the last decade he decides I got the Bastards down south... let him smile ...and say the Cards are the only team which screws their players and complain and whine we can't get anyone... must be the reason we have Penants, WS Banners and HOF'rs out their ass or I would assume so wouldn't you? but then again we don't know shit and are ignorant right?

BTW Jack hasn't gotten over Buck's Bush league claim in Aug Cubs/Cards game @ Wrigly and has brought up how the Cards are Bush league 2 or 3 times since... Sad isn't it?

The main point of this post is a) this is a shitty move by the Cardinals and b) this could/will keep the Cardinals from signing players they need in the future.

I'm not sure either of these points have been disagreed on at all by the Cardinals fans, has it?

I apologize for the shot at your intelligence. Heat of the moment got me. Sorry.

Look, whether or not the guy was good, he busted his butt for the Cardinals this season. Even Dave Duncan spoke about how Wells tried to take over the Chris Carpenter role in the rotation, albeit unsuccessfully. He took the ball every time they gave it to him and this was after he was coming off a major surgery. He gave the Cardinals everything he had, and probably everything they should have expected. If you thought the guy was going to come back and win 15-18 games, then I have some beachfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

The team sets the lineup and in this case they used him until the price became too expensive...again, that's my opinion.

The Cardinals are at a point right now where their minor league farm system isn't the greatest and their ability to sign good players is lacking. That is the fault of their management.

While the Cardinals are the Cubs major rival and I like beating them, I think they can do better than the team they had on the field this season.

You couldn't make a claim like this against Cubs management, they have made the effort in the past and present, to sign players. It may not have always worked out, or been the best signing, but the effort has been there lately.

I'm with Jack. You don't let a guy run you into the ground for 17 losses and THEN decide to shut him down just short of a bonus trigger. If they had issues with his performance, then they should have shut him down as a starter in July or August instead of letting him get beaten night in and night out. But, the Cardinals were still in a playoff race and they tried to suck as many innings out of him as they could, hoping he'd come around. Just because he performed poorly doesn't mean he should get screwed the last week of the season. If you're going to pull that nonsense, just stop putting incentive clauses in contracts and be straight with the guys. Or put them on one year contracts and let them earn their keep every year. Only then, you run the risk of them having a good year and getting the hell out of Dodge for a franchise that will show them a little more appreciation. All in all, as far as I'm concerned, the Cards can keep doing what their doing. Cobra is surely content with the job Marquis has done since leaving STL for Chi-town and I know that we've appreciated having Grudz at 2B in KC. When they start losing the guys like Carpenter or Pujols, then maybe they'll change their ways...but I doubt they'll change much as long as they can keep their big dogs.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BUSH LEAGUE....BLAH BUSH BLAH BLAH BLAH LEAGUE. BUSH LEAGUE BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BUSH LEAGUE BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. BLIGGITY BLAH BUSH BLIGGITY LEAGUE.

BLAH

I'm enlightened and feel so much better now...

I think the sting of not making the playoffs is still present for some of these touchy Cardinals fans!

"Even Dave Duncan spoke about how Wells tried to take over the Chris Carpenter role in the rotation"

I believe Duncan was actually talking about how Wells should NOT be in this position. He didn't thrive being the ace for the Pirates and Duncan didn't want him to assume this role on the Cardinals. He knew he couldn't handle it. He knew he didn't have the mental makeup to handle the position. That was Wells putting undue pressure on himself.

I don't think any Cards fan or management expected Wells to win 15-18 games. I thought at most we thought we would get a Marquis type guy with a .500 or so record. Maybe something around 10-11 or so. But, instead we were given a guy who just didn't even compete half the time. You say he busted his butt??? Wells started 12 games this year in which he pitched 5 or less innings and 3 where he pitched 3 innings or less. Great effort there. He gave up 5 or more earned runs in 12 games started. If he would have performed better throughout the season, he would have blown by the innings pitched bonus a long time ago. He has no one to blame but himself. He has the stuff to be a decent pitcher, but wasn't. The Cardinals probably short changed him, but let's not blame Wells shortcomings on the Cardinals.

This isn't to say that I'm happy with Cardinals management. They have under spent the last few years on an obviously aging team. The medical treatments are a complete other issue. But, the dude didn't deserve the $4million he made this year, let alone another $500k.

The Cardinals definitely should have put together a better team this year. However, seeing how the NL Central played out, if you take away 1/2 or even a 1/4 of their injuries and they had as good a shot as any team to win the division. Hell they were in it till 2 weeks to go with this squad.

Go back to concentrating on your Cubs. You should be basking in the fact that your team is in the playoffs, instead you are making claims that you really don't care about because every team has done this whether you want to admit it or not.

Baseball is about winning and money. Wells didn't win, he didn't deserve the money.

Buck Rampage reporting in the above comment BTW.

No one ever blamed Wells shortcomings on the Cardinals. Like you said, and everyone else has agreed on...the Cardinals gave him the shaft when it came to the bonus. That is what the post is about. I've gone over that for you time and time again.

The guy tried to reach outside of his limits for the good of the club and now you are going to crucify him for it because he wasn't able to get the job done? How many athletes shy away from that kind of opportunity....a lot of them. They want to go the safe route to stay secure. Instead Wells puts the pressure on himself to pick up the slack....and since he couldn't do that job, which he shouldn't have had to do had the Cardinals signed or had a #2 starter in their rotation instead of two bullpen guys, he's getting dumped on. I'm calling shenanigans on that and the behavior of the Cardinals organization.

Whether or not he gave up runs isn't what the argument is here. The fact that his outings were less than mediocre is easy to pick up on. That's not even part of the argument here. The compensation wasn't based on wins, losses or ERA. It was based on innins pitched and it was, based on historical evidence, placed into the contract because the player had come off of an injury. Look at Carpenter's initial contract when he came back from surgery and I'm sure you'll see something similar.

Again, you guys get completely off of what the post is even about. He pitched all those innings, he took the ball when they gave it to him...and then they took it away from him when he had the opportunity to reach his incentives.

Go back to concentrating on the Cardinals...no wait, their season is over and all that is left is controversy. On top of that free agency is coming up and I look forward to the splashes your team makes in free agency...no wait, the belly flops. Unless they change management and their strategy for going, or not going, after players.

Keep drinking the kool-aid, I'm sure it tastes good right now.

Did he have a good record this season? No, that much is evident. Did he deserve better treatment from the Cardinals, who are quickly becoming a franchise that tries to pull "quick one's" on others? Yes. We've agreed on that much. Why you are still arguing is beyond me.

your opinion our facts ...

and if I wanted to take the time to dig around I'm sure the Cubbies have always paid and played players to ensure every incentive clause was paidout...

put your big boy boxers on and get over it its business

if you feel that sympathetic for Wells maybe you can start an online fund raiser for him on the Brigade... as a public service.. I know that could be the only reason your still raggin over this

Cards fans will just wait and see how things play out .... we're patient and data and percentages never lie ...

I'm sure they is more fun to come

I don't see how you say the Cardinals are becoming a franchise that tries to pull quick ones on players because of this Wells deal.

They didn't enter into the free agency bananza last year because the salaries weren't justified. I don't get how you characterize the whole team by this one incident, which again I say wasn't totally unjustified because the Cards probably expected him to blow by that incentive and pitch over 200 innings.

The Cardinals take care of their core players salary wise and then have a lot of fringe/bench/young players who make less than $1mill per year. Just like every other team. You mentioned them treating Edmonds unfairly in your post....the Cards signed him to a 2 yr - $19mill contract last year when he didn't deserve that due to injuries and age. They did it because he is loved by the fans and has been part of their run this decade. There is no problem with Pujols either. Just a minor tiff with TLR that was blown out of proportion by the media. The Rolen deal is what it is. Him and TLR don't get along, but the Cards have paid him plenty.

The Cards have a couple of younger players coming into their large contract years (Molina, Wainwright, Duncan). They'll compensate these guys the right way (unless they trade Duncan). But, Molina and Wainwright will not get the shaft.

Buck - the issues I talk about don't just concern salaries. There have been grumblings from both Edmonds and the Cardinals for a bunch of reasons. Same as with Rolen and Pujols...never did I mention their salaries. You could go into how they've dealt with each players injuries and the players as individuals. You've documented yourself how the Cardinals training staff has been horrendous for the Cardinals players.

If the Cards expected him to blow by the 200 innings mark they would have set the incentive to kick in at 200 innings. That's how MLB contracts work. They don't just throw out a random number, they base it on a lot of factors.

The Cardinals team has been cheap in all of their business aspects (outside of building that beauty of a park). Look at their minor league system, the players they've drafted and the players they've signed in free agency. They've gone the cheap route and it's starting to catch up with them. The 'save money by not giving it to Wells' issue isn't necessarily the first cost cutting move the Cardinals have done. (This info came from the Cardinals Diaspora website)

They'll be looking to get 'hometown discounts' from Molina, Wainwright and Duncan. You can count on that.

mlbcardsfan - could you explain this a bit more? "Cards fans will just wait and see how things play out .... we're patient and data and percentages never lie ..."

I thought with your intellect further clarification isn't required

Jack ... your hilarious and hate corners don't you

Well, mlbcardsfans, usually your comments are succinct and to the point, but not in this instance.

What are you waiting to play out? what data and percentages are you looking at and for what situation? Just the Wells situation? The Cardinals free agency signings as a whole?

Trust me, I'm intelligent enough to turn your argument into a pretzel no matter what side of the argument I take.

Jack

You’ve documented your superior intelligence to the point of pain. I'm sure everyone's read it more than once.

allow your paranoia to marinate for a while.

Relax it's the post season.

actually to be honest, Wells didn't do his job. Pitchers are supposed to put their teams in a position to win, and you can see by Wells' record alone, he couldn't do it but a few times this season.

I hope players don't sign with the Cardinals because of it, because they have ugly uniforms and more importantly, they traded 3 sillies for Mark Mulder.

Thanks a lot for this groovy post!