Ripken was on something too. He found my hidden fountain and has been drinking from it since '92. That's stealing and cheating!

I want to clarify here (because this seems like the place to do it) that my post about Bonds on Blue Thoughts was not meant to be cutting the guy any slack. I hope that was clear. I still hate him.

I just know he wasn't the only one, and therefore don't think he should take the punishment for all of them. They're all equally awful, if you ask me.

Although I really do not want to comment on this, I feel the need to say something here. I know Cobra knows this, and probably has less respect for me because of it, but I love "The LF from San Fran!" From the time that he was in Pitt, to the time that the Braves almost got him before he went to the Giants, to the time that he has spent on the Giants. Yes he is not pleasant to the media, and can be known as a prick, but he is an amazing talent and I respect amazing talents.

I think it is because I know how hard professional baseball can be and is. I was on the brink of tasting that difficulty a couple of times, and no matter how good I thought I was, I was never even remotely talented enough to get to that level. I don't care how much crap you pump into or out of yourself, it is still one of if not the most difficult sport there is, and you still have to perform.

Hey, let's start letting Tiger Woods use a cart on the PGA Tour while the rest of the guys have to walk.

Maybe we'll start letting the Boston Bruins play with an extra guy.

The Bulls are now allowed to play with an extra guy on defense.

You still have to perform the task, but its much easier. That's why it's called cheating.

Now, instead of people applauding this guy for his talent, they are ripping on him because of the shortcuts he tried to take.

Yes, he was still working out, but anyone who works out knows.....as you get older its becomes harder to get your muscles feeling like normal again. He's essentially helping (illegaly) his body go from doing 8 reps to 12 reps, with less down time and on more days every week.

I say he should bring back the Porn 'stache. At least he'd be popular with fans of 70's porn and Magnum PI..maybe some ladies too!

ummm, not to be rude or anything in the comments section or anything but:

Let's all be honest with ourselves here for a minute. This isn't taking anything away from hockey or basketball or even golf because all of them, in their own ways, are difficult sports to play and be successful in, one way or another. Baseball is about as one on one as you can get when it comes to hitting. You're out there, with a catcher and a pitcher exchanging signs with each other trying their best to fool you with a pitch. It's on you to put the ball in play and drive in runs for your team, noone else can help you with an alleyoop or a one timer.

In an era of steroids and "chicks dig the long ball" discussions, we all seem to forget that hitting a 90+ mph fastball is quite possibly one of the hardest things to do. That's why guys that get hits 3 out of 10 tries make millions of dollars. Barry Bonds may have cheated, but so may have Clemens. Giambi has cheated, but so may have all of the pitchers on the Cubs roster. Who are we to chastise and boo and hiss at these major league ballplayers when performance enhancing ANYTHING isn't even tested or illegal in their line of work?

Jesus christ, Mark McGwire got raked over the coals for having a bottle of andro in his locker... Until then, it was never a problem, until the media got involved.

Everyone needs to get off their high horses and realize that in this day and age, with the evolution of science and the difference in equipment between then and now that these records are going to be broken. Barry Bonds may be no saint, but he hasn't been actually proven guilty by anyone or any test. He is one of the greatest baseball players of all time, whether he changed hat sizes or not, he's been one of the best.

But then again, ARod has gotten substantially larger since his days as a puny Mariner... where's your post slamming him? Oh that's right, you don't have one. Because he hasn't been thrown under the bus yet by convicts that are trying to buy their way out of jail by throwing out names of high profile athletes that CONGRESS (of all people) want to make an example of.

Please, I don't buy it. Your boy George Mitchell is probably just mad because he can't throw a spiral OR hit a 65 mph fastball in a batting cage... This isn't about history or record books being re-written, this is about dragging people's names through the mud. As it is with most political campaigns, it's all about greasing someone else's pockets by making them look like a saint and a savior, and that's what these idiots that are chasing their tails with this steroid thing are doing.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a former baseball player that is stuck playing in 25+ wood bat leagues.

Are you serious Boney? You bring A-Rod into this? You do realize he was 19 yrs old when he started with the M's, right? Of course his body is going to change, he was a boy then. When a man's hat size changes from one year to the next....that's not good

Who are we to chastise and boo and hiss at these major league ballplayers when performance enhancing ANYTHING isn't even tested or illegal in their line of work?

ME. That's who. AND YOU. That's who. ALL OF US. We have the right to chastise these people because we care about the game. It's obvious they do not. They cheat to make more money, not to win championships.

I could care less about the breaking of records. Records are made to be broken. I'm tired of heroes being made out of people who are plain fools.

He WAS one of the greatest baseball players. Now he's a cheater. If it looks like a chicken, sounds like a chicken...it is a chicken. If you need a test to tell you that he's didn't become that way naturally then you may need to get your head examined.

Also, this isn't an argument I want to get into. That's how strongly I feel about it. My statement is in the post and in the comments section. I only wrote the post because Brian asked us to chime in. I won't give this guy another second of my time.

Cpt. Morgan, allow me to suggest a perspective change. Stop respecting amazing talents and start respecting amazing people. Who am I to chastise "The Left Fielder from San Fransisco"? I am Badass Bruce Paine and I never played above Babe Ruth and have 0 (zero) athletic ability. But I do have heart, and I am not so scared of losing that I will cheat to win. The performance enhancing drug issue disgusts me and if I found out tomorrow that Marvin Harrison (the greatest creature to walk the Earth) used roids then he could go straight to hell. I think we should all stop watching MLB and start going to little league games.

I can't figure out really why it is such the issue that it is? As far as I know, steroids that the time were not illegal in a baseball sense. The same way that greenies were not illegal in a baseball sense. You can of course say that because our laws make them illegal then you shouldn't be using them. I would agree with you, but I would also say that baseball is held to "different" laws. There are fights, and lawsuits for battery are never filed for example.

And if you say then all those that used greenies cheated, then I would say that all those in baseball cheated...I thought I read somewhere that greenies helped increase your bat speed slightly along with your hand-eye-coordination...cheaters...

Maybe one day down the road, someone will find that Creatine will somehow cause Dihydrotestosterone to be converted to testosterone and become illegal...should all those that used it in the past be labeled as cheaters and punished?

Also...if you honestly believe that all football players just happen to be that big, then I think you maybe misinformed.

i don't, but anyone that thinks a guy that played four years as an orangeman, and a decade in the NFL at the same weight and height probably doesn't juice. I didn't use NFLers as a generality either, I used a particular one. Anybody that thinks Marvin is juicing should get their head checked. I don't live with my head so far into video games that I don't think there are NFLers who are juicing, but I would bet my top dollar (which is also my bottom one) that the reason baseball's image is a mess because of roids and baseball's isn't is because the NFl has been more open about its testing efforts and the NFLPA is more open to working with the league on preventing it. The payer's union in the MLB has the reputation for being a hard nut union that doesn't budge or acquiesce to change and they (here comes an opinion) may have knowingly hid the rampant use of roids amongst players because of its widespread use. Somebody should look into that.

Its funny you mention that...now this doesn't have much to do with steroids, but it does have something to do with cheating and covering it up...

I heard the other day that when Sosa's bat exploded and they found cork inside, that someone from MLB called the cubs and said that they have 1 hour before someone comes over there to investigate...meaning, "hey, get rid of all the contraband before the screws come and toss the cell." I heard that they threw out like 50 to 100 bats from the cubs clubhouse, several of them Sosa's, but not all his...

it does show that the MLB is a culture of condoned misbehavior that is mutually accepted by players and front offices. That is a shame and only serves to foster the mistrust that fans like myself have for the MLB and the player's union.

At some point, it just has to be accepted that the past is the past. Nothing can be done about what athletes took when there were no league rules against it. Yes it sucks, but such is life. Asterisks are worthless as well, so the game as it is has to be accepted and the numbers put up during the time of widespread use will just have to be an anomaly that is part of the league's history. The only thing that can be changed now is the future of baseball. Stop with this "random" test crap and just test EVERYONE. If you're positive, you're done. Allow the MLBPA their appeal, and if a 2nd test confirms, you're STILL done. I realize there will always be new cutting edge enhancement materials, but the world of professional sports makes A LOT of money. If the people that create these drugs can afford to research and develop them, the sports leagues can afford to come together and stay on top of things to keep the tests on the cutting edge as well. There will never be a perfect system, but if you continue to eliminate athletes that are trying to cut corners, eventually as livelihoods are taken away, they'll be forced to stop cheating. Am I living in a fantasy world? Perhaps...but what I suggest isn't really as unreasonable as it seems. The unreasonable part is the fact that millions of dollars are being spent year after year on development (and prevention of use) of drugs like these, instead of using that money for research on Cancer, AIDS, genetic birth defects, and a multitude of other things that money would be better spent on.

Quick question: If it wasn't "cheating" at the time and it wasn't "illegal" at the time, then why was it kept so quiet? Let's ponder on that! Take it from Ron Mexico. Giving a female a false name and then sleeping with her isn't illegal, but if you give her the Herp, then it's not gonna stay quiet! So, steroids in baseball = the Herp..remember this lesson.

Even without steroids, I think Bonds would have easily hit over 650 home runs, and maybe 700. It wasn't just steroids that kept Bonds excellent, but his workout regimen, maple bats, body padding, etc. 500 is selling the guy way short.

I agree that the left fielder from San Francisco almost certainly cheated, but so have many, many MLB ballplayers, starting a long time ago (I'm talking greenies).

So why the antipathy toward one particular player?

I just think it's funny that people can sit in their television studios, or in the publication offices and look at pictures of baseball players and say "well, Barry Bonds has gotten bigger in his 20+ years of playing baseball. He's on something".

Hey, Jack, ARod has gotten bigger much in the same mold as Bonds has. They've both become thicker in the chest and in the legs, and since they've become bigger they do not steal nearly as many bases as they used to. So let's just come out and accuse ARod too. Also, let's accuse Miguel Cabrera (of the Marlins) because he went from being a stick figure to now being borderline Manny Ramirez.

This whole "I'm going to tell my kids that Barry Bonds is a cheater" is ridiculous. If you're going to do that, then tell your kids that Babe Ruth was a drunk that cheated on his wife. Or, if you're going to talk about head sizes and how numbers can't improve well into your 30s, then look at Hank Aaron's statistics. How was he able to maintain his homerun power well into his 30s and early 40s? By your logic, he should be accused of cheating too.

studes, the apathy is towards one player who is getting ready to break "the most important record" in baseball history. Since when did hitting a lot of homeruns equal out to being an important record. Who is it important to? I know it's not important to the Pittsburgh Pirates or the SF Giants, because all those homeruns lead to 1 World Series appearance. Barry Bonds will go down in history as one of the greatest, all around baseball players to ever step on the field, and all people will give him credit for is being able to hide his pill bottles and needles well.

studes-

you said: "So why the antipathy toward one particular player?"

Are you really going to get mad at Neifi Perez, Ken Caminitti, or Jose Canseco?

Boney...you are an idiot. I'm sorry, I love you dude but you are just wrong. Same with Cpt. Morgan, you know these things. You are a doctor, yo. Unless you are just trying to play the Devil's Advocate.

A-Rod was a boy when he entered the league, of course he's going to get bigger. He had the frame to do it. I thought you played ball before? Maybe not well enough to be scouted an hear these terms? Have you looked at the size of A-Rod's hands? He's supposed to be that big.

It's the hat size Boney, the hat size (at least initially). Go look at some old pics of Marion Jones and then some newer pics. Then, do the same with Barry. Your head isn't supposed to grow like that. Then, do some research and come back.

studes, I agree that he would have hit well over 500 if he stayed healthy.

Of course I know these things...just like I know taking a boat load of methadone is bad, just like smoking cigs will kill you, just like drinking too much will ruin your liver...I know all of these things, as do all of you, but people still choose to do them. My point was that it was not cheating in baseball because baseball had not made it illegal.

If you want to say that you don't like him because you do not agree with what he might have done, then that is fine. But don't say he cheated when it was not wrong to do so...

Again...If it's not cheating, then why doesn't he just say he did them? OR anyone for that matter? Why do people need to hide it? It's not like people are accusing him of listening to Hootie and the Blowfish *a far worse crime*.

First of all, sorry for the personal attack Boney. You are cool in my book. Second of all, this is not an argument that is going to be a very rational one because of the subject involved.

The thoughts are mine and mine alone. This is how I feel. Whether you feel it's right or wrong...that's your decision. I'm content with feeling this way. I've even thought about it quite a bit.

The game of baseball was probably the first love of my life. I want it to be a certain way and I want it to be played a certain way. Whether that happens or not though....I still hope. I read books about Joe Morgan, Joe DiMaggio, Hank Aaron, etc. growing up. I will tell my children about these tales some day.

So, is this post kind of crazy and irrational? Possibly. Is it how I truly feel? Absolutely.

I just want to chime in here and say: Boney, even if Jack Cobra just called you an idiot, I believe your comment was the most intelligent thing I've ever seen you write.

And yes, I realize that sounds like a back-handed compliment; it is a compliment, though.

I absolutely agree with everything he said, and will do a post on this soon, but: One, nothing has been proven. The gov't spend millions of dollars going after him, and not a single shrewd of evidence, not enough to indict.

Two, even if he did juice, I don't care - half the league did. Before he was suspected of juicing, he was a the best player of our time - 40/40 (legit), 30/30 more times than anyone. An amazing talent. Meanwhile, by any credible source - the only two credible sources in MLB regarding steroids are Canseco and Camienitti - between 50% to 80% of the league was juicing.

Now look at the records being broken - it's not just the HR record; Clemens has 350 wins, and could be approaching 400 (!) if he had played for a better team the last three seasons. That's insane. Pujols is doing things that no major leaguer has ever done as in his first 5 years.

Dave Ortiz went from being cut by the Twins to a cleanup DH hitter. Mike Piazza went from undrafted no-talent to the greatest hitting catcher of all time. Ivan Rodriguez has put up Johnny Bench numbers. And there are probably lots of other players that you or I would never suspect... either stop watching baseball, or accept juicing as fact, like we do in the NFL. Where, despite the occasional Merriman catch, everyone is doing something. There is nothing natural about NFL players. Nothing. Everyone turns a blind eye to it, except when the media tells you to hate Bonds.

And lastly: the excuse that the record is tarnish... records are going to be broken. Even if it wasn't, baseball in the 90's is not the same as baseball in the 50's (hey, where are the black players at?) or baseball in the 20's. The record being broken doesn't change that everyone loves Babe Ruth, or Hank Aaron. It's just a new name on the record, so that 50 years from now when someone goes to break it they will talk about how the great Barry Bonds' record is being broken...

I really couldn't care less about the record being broken. Like SML said, they are made to be broken. I just don't like the guy. Also...those guys you named...don't like them either.

Albert Pujols first five seasons = Frank Thomas first five seasons

WE ARE THE BLOGOSPHERE!

SML: I wouldn't necessarily say that all NFL players are on the juice. You saw Manning on SNL, right? That guy has the physique and chest muscles of a 12 year old (who is not taking steroids).

First off, I wasn't offended by Jack Cobra and even if I was, I wouldn't really care or hold it against him because it's Barry Bonds, it's not like me and him arguing that my girlfriend is ugly or something. As far as my scouting in baseball went, it went about as far as my basketball career went: "too short to play first base, not enough velocity to pitch, he can hit, but do we want a 5'9 DH? No." I didn't have the "frame" or the bone structure to grow after I turned 18.

Second, I don't care about Marion Jones. Track and field does not bother me, it does not influence my television watching when it's on because, well, I don't watch it. They could all be on roids, Lance Armstrong too... Your argument of Bonds doing roids to make millions is weak, and that's why I said what I said. He was the best ballplayer in baseball at 28 when he signed with SF.

I do watch baseball. I do watch enjoy watching guys play a game that I used to play, and a game that I still enjoy breaking down things like your boy Carlos from the earlier post does (great interview by the way).

Let me just say this, when Barry signed with the Giants he was the best all around baseball player in baseball. He had put up a couple of years of 30+ homers by the age of 28.

He hit 49 homeruns as a 35 year old guy, which then was his career high. The next season he hit 73 homeruns. Then he immediately went back down to the 40+ homer range, which has been his range since joining the Giants. Couldn't it have been a 1 year fluke?

Year after year in San Francisco you're talking about a guy that hits over .300, has an OBP of over .425, and a SLG of .600+ in all of his years in SF. Ok?

He drives in, on average 105 rbi a year since being a Giant (one year he had 10 because of injuries). He reached double digits in stolen bases till he was 37 years old. I throw these numbers at you to show you how consistent of a hitter and ballplayer this guy has been SINCE the age of 28! How have numbers blossomed into anything extraordinary other than the one year of 70+ bombs? The 1 year of 70+ bombs still didn't have an effect on his other numbers that he put up that season, they all fell in line with his averages. Actually, he struck out 93 times which was his worst year of strikeouts since his rookie year.

I don't know about you guys, I mean, if you asked me to be straight up after a round (or 4) of beers then I'd probably tell you I think he was on something. But this is a perfect example of how today's society is... we arrest people for actually getting caught doing something illegal, but we let them run the potential court cases from behind bars because they choose to try and plea bargain as their hands are being put in shackles. Actually, since the new laws in Virginia are more strict now against speeding in your vehicle, I guess if I blamed my reckless driving on Barry Bonds and steroids then I guess he'd get in trouble for that too.

Now, you can tell me all you want about hat sizes getting bigger and look at Marion Jones this or that and I'll counter with my argument about ARod, Cabrera, and I'll even throw Pujols in there too.

Barry Bonds has been a prick to the media since Day 1. Since he was at AZ State, he's probably been a prick. That's why people are coming after him. That's why YOU have finally said "ehh, he's a prick to the media, he's a prick to the fans, now he's tarnishing one of the best records of all time... he's a cheater, I'll take the easy way out on this whole argument".

You can't discount the way his body has changed. You just can't. It came too late in his career. If it was earlier in his career, maybe. But when a guy has to change his hat size at the age of 35, something is up.

I brought up Marion Jones because, as we talked about in a previous post, the use of performance enhancing drugs possibly/probably/did start with Track & Field. That is why the drug tests are tougher for those athletes.

There have been many studies done about HGH, Cream, the Clear, steroids, etc. and they all lead me to believe that Bonds used. That's my personal opinion. I would hope that everyone realizes that I would never write anything on this blog without doing my due diligence. I've done mine here. I promise you that.

There was a time when I found it hard to believe the former OF for the Cubs did something, but after researching and talking to people...it became much too obvious.

There is no question that this guy has been a great player. I can't argue that. At the beginning of his career his numbers were staggering. He was well on his way to becoming the best player of our generation. Then this came along.

My post doesn't have to make sense to you. I'm not trying to use this in court against him. I was ASKED to give my OPINION about him. The post and my comments are that. I did not write this to incite conversation. I've even thought about turning the comments off on here, but you guys are too good and too intelligent to do that to. This is just how I feel. That's all, nothing more. Nothing you say will change my mind, as I doubt nothing I say will change yours. That's fine, I'm happy with that. It's obvious to me that we are all intelligent people here.

It's a hot topic, and it will continue to be. I'm going to go enjoy my weekend now.....

SML-

One quick thing. Piazza was drafted in the 62nd round by the Dodgers. Tommy Lasorda did it as a favor to Piazza's father. I know it's 62nd round, but he was still drafted.

My hat size has gone up like 2 sizes since high school, so, am I using? I have also gone from wearing a large as a junior in high school, to an xtra large as a senior to now a XX nearly 10 years later, so does that mean I'm using also?

Also, his body has been growing since his rookie year, much like ARod's. Actually, I'd venture a guess to say that ARod will continue to get bigger and he SHOULD be thrown in the mix with the controversy as he gets closer to Bonds' eventual record.

It's one thing for your hat size to go up because you gain weight....

You are missing the entire point Boney

I'm not missing the point. I understand this whole argument (the same argument that everyone at ESPN tells you to have) but let me ask you this.. You've never seen me eat a cupcake or a greasy hamburger, so how can you accuse me of gaining weight without proof?

Boney-

You stated: "My hat size has gone up like 2 sizes since high school, so, am I using? I have also gone from wearing a large as a junior in high school, to an xtra large as a senior to now a XX nearly 10 years later, so does that mean I'm using also?"

And also: "You've never seen me eat a cupcake or a greasy hamburger, so how can you accuse me of gaining weight without proof?"

Your previous post gave us proof. Unless you are saying you are using!

By the way, I think this argument has crossed into the "deep semantics" area.

The main point of my argument is:

1. Even though Jack claims his words as "opinion", they're wrong in the sense that he's crucifying the guy before anyone proves anything. He's going off of pictures (before and after) and he's going off of a book that was written by a couple of guys that think they may have seen something after talking to a couple of people about something they think they saw too.

To me, I think Barry used something, do I hold it against him? No, I can't because there's something in this country called "innocent until proven guilty". I honestly hope for the sake of all the "pundits" or "dimwits" out there that cannot throw spiral or hit a fastball that Barry Bonds is clean, and has always been clean so he can say F U to all of you that have tried to rub his name in mud.

To say he knowingly used something is like telling me that my hat size and shirt size has gone up because I knowingly ate quarter pounders with cheese, when I may have thought they were good for me. That's a blatant comparison, but it's a comparison.

Boney...it's my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I wrote this because someone asked me to because of what is going to happen in the next couple of weeks. If I truly wanted to crucify the guy I would link to every medical journal and article that I've read over the past five years that leaves no doubt in the minds of intelligent people where the LF stands. Instead, I wrote how I felt. It's not meant to be anything more than opinion. Just as if I were sitting at a bar talking. I didn't even send this post out to be linked to or anything. I was hoping it would just fade away to the bottom of the page. I was fulfilling a request with my opinion.

Just as you don't hold it against him....I do. Just as I hold it against all those that I think did it. I'm not perfect, I do think people are guilty before they are proven innocent from time to time.

We already know he's used 'The Clear' and 'The Cream', so we know he hasn't always been clean. That is a fact, so he can't say F U to everyone. If you think he didn't knowingly use whatever he used.....then you are wrong. This is a man who was the main 'centerfold' for Balco. Most of their advertisements had him in them and he had major publications write about his workout regiment in which he gave specific details about what certain exercises did. On top of that, he is not a dumb person. If you've ever heard him talk about the history of baseball, baseball strategies, or even technology....you know that he's intelligent enough, and curious enough to find out what's going on.

Also, I've never read the book. I have talked to medical professionals, trainers in the world of track & field/baseball/football and former athletes.

Let it go. It's just my opinion based on a lot of research I personally did.

"innocent until proven guilty" applies to courts of law. This is not one of those, and we don't have to behave as though it is to satisfy your hopes of some Moorian Utopia. You admit that you believe he used something. We feel the same way. We hold it against him. Why can't we hold it against him? Because I didn't play semipro ball? Come on, you're better than that, Boney. We aren't required to maintain a positive outlook on Barry Bonds because he hasn't gone to jail for some sort of wrong doing. Don King hasn't gone to jail for what he has done to boxing, but most people despise him anyway. He is unsavory, he behaves in a fashion that people find repulsive, and he conducts his business in a manner that exploits and confuses those he wishes to take advantage of. We don't like him, and we don't have to wait for a friggin cop to tell us he isn't worth our admiration.

Woah, hold up:
"If I truly wanted to crucify the guy I would link to every medical journal and article that I've read over the past five years that leaves no doubt in the minds of intelligent people where the LF stands."

Just for my curiosity, I would like to see some links to scholarly medical journals that have opined on the Barry Bonds debate. It would be informative.

As for the clear and the cream, we still don't know what was in those substances. The book's theories are very much disputable... the book has little credibility outside of sportswriting circles. It was denied entry into the Pulitzer's Prize category for nonfiction because it was deemed too fictional, or too much unreliable info in it to qualify. And that's the only place that, as far as I know, has claimed to identified the substances that made up the cream and the clear. It's worth noting.

As for talking to trainers in gyms and sports... I'm sure they all have opinions. A couple of my best friends are trainers, and they have differing opinions. One strongly believes that Bonds did steroids, the other doubt it. That's part of the reason I'm so ambigious about the topic myself. Point being, it's very likely that whoever you have talked to was just stating an opinion, probably based on photos, not unlike yourself. Opinions are great and all, but I would like some actual facts before convicting Bonds, and just Bonds. Not opinions, not stats... facts.

And even then I probably wouldn't care that much, since I do believe a lot of players were using steroids.